How to Leverage OTC as a Growth Opportunity for Your Practice

From telehealth to OTC, Dr. Kent Collins has spent his career turning potential threats into growth opportunities for hearing care practices across the country. As the Global Director of Clinical Operations for Audibel, Dr. Collins has developed strategies for success and compiled the data to prove they work. In this episode, he and Dave talk tactics for business growth in this new era of OTC hearing aids, why hearing healthcare professionals have a huge advantage over the competition, and why patient satisfaction should continue to be the top priority.   

Link to transcript

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Starkey Soundbites. I'm your host, Dave Fabry, Starkey's Chief Innovation Officer. Now, for many audiologists, 2022 was the year that they were sort of anxiously or nervously anticipating because we we knew that it was likely we'd finally see over-the-counter hearing aids become a reality. And now that reality has come, and we have over-the-counter as a new category of hearing aids available in the market. And so it seemed appropriate to invite uh Dr. Ken Collins, who's the global director of clinical operations for Audible. He's an audiologist, he's an expert in retail, in strategic operations, in strategic planning. And I'm really glad that you're with us today, Kent, to share some of your experiences about how it is that you've really guided in your role, Audible, to anticipate and adapt to this new environment we're living in. Starkey CEO has said lead, adapt, or die. And I think you've been a shining example with your group of how it is that you've tried to anticipate and adapt while still keeping the focus uh on the patient or the consumer, if you will, when we consider over-the-counter hearing aids. So I look forward to this discussion and thank you for spending the time with us today.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

I appreciate the invite for being here and thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

Of course. So, first things first, let's uh let's talk a little bit about your background. Sure. Um, you know, uh talk about your role now and what you do uh first. Let's let's let's start there.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Yes, my title, the fancy title is director of getting things done. That's what I always say is is when people come to me, that's my job, is whatever needs to be done for our organization. I just get it done. So, yes, the title uh Global Operations Clinic Director is is really overseeing the insurance programs, the third-party programs, our clinical protocols and our administrative protocols.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Okay. And so and you're also an audiologist at Purdue Grad, if I'm not mistaken, correct? Boiler means. So um, what was it that served as the catalyst for you to find audiology? I love audiology origin stories. How did you decide that you wanted to uh uh develop that as your career?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

It's a unique story. I was a wrestler and I saw that your post, you were a wrestler in high school. I was indeed.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

I was uh undefeated at Vincent T. Lombardi Jr. High School in 1974. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

I always respect you, and now I even have more respect. So um when I was a wrestler, I had really bad cauliflower ear. So I had to wear a special headgear and I got slammed off the mat and I had paralymphistula.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

So I had a surgery and they removed all my cauliflower ear.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

So how old were you when this happened?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Uh sophomore in high school.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Yep. Wow. So and then the next year in football, somebody looked hit the little ear hole on my helmet. Same, you know, paralymp fistula, same ear. So I've had two surgeries. Wow. So that's what exposed me to audiology, so which is yeah, unique because most kids in high school don't know what they want to do when they grow up.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

And I yeah, it was as if something was trying to tell them what your future was going to look like.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

The surgeon was like, it's like winning the lottery and getting hit by lightning. You know, twice. I'd rather win the lottery than you know, but twice, yeah, definitely. Uh so I knew I wanted to be an audiologist, went to school, finished my undergrad a little early in December, and called up Starkey and was offered a position in manufacturing.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Making urinates. That was my very first job at Starkey, is at the end of the assembly line doing the specifications on the hurinates, the meet the ANSI specs. Uh so I did that for several months and then went to Purdue for graduate school and finished and worked at an ET group in Minnesota for three years, and then joined Star Key again in sales. I did inside and outside sales for a few years and then left to join a private practice. And you know, we grew that into several locations, and Starkey purchased the private practice in 2010. And I stayed on to be the regional director in the southwest and managed our about 40 clinics in the southwestern United States. And in 2013, I was asked to create the the Doc in the Box program, which evolved into telehere. Uh so we started our teleaudiology program, and now that's growing into 22 audiologists and five technicians. And then to proceed a little more, about 2018, I was asked to step into the operations role.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

So again, over CNR insurance and third-party programs and boy, I I love origin stories, and I really like yours to carry through with that wrestling analogy, sort of like you're working on many different muscle groups. When you think about you started out building hearing aids and with that understanding of what was necessary in order to go into the hearing aids, but then working in the audiology role and overseeing practices. I know you've been involved in the education and training part and best practice, operations. You really have sort of this overall uh uh utility infielder approach, really, from having all of those different facets of your career to bring you where we need you right now. And that is really in leading the Audible group on that operation side in these uh uncharted waters, if you will. And so let's transition a little bit into that. I mean, leading up to the um development or the uh the creation of this new over-the-counter category. Audible and through the telehear program was already quite um uh involved with telehealth prior to, I know we've had a lot of conversations because I similarly have been a big fan of telehealth and the telehear program to augment that relationship that exists in a face-to-face environment between the professional and the patient. You guys really walked the talk prior to the pandemic in ways that most practitioners weren't thinking about. And even though many people were saying this is another tool in your tool belt, people just sort of acknowledged that telehealth was a good thing, but they just didn't incorporate it. So talk a little bit first about the way it is that you oversaw this development and growth of the telehear program to assist in the growth that you've had with Audible.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, you bet. So our telehear program is embedded into almost every aspect of our patient journey. So when patients first come in, most patients will connect with one of our telehear audiologists just for the colleague effect. It's too the male clinic approach where you know a team of physicians will do a better job taking care of the patient. So when we can put two heads together with you know the audiologist, telehear audiologist, and the local provider, we can get better clinical care. And the patients really appreciate that. So when patients come in, it's oftentimes the fear of providers may have is well, why would I go to another licensed provider? Why would I incorporate somebody on? In reality, what happens is the patients are seeing this as exceptional care, they're not getting anywhere else. So that was the foundation of what we built off of, and it just kind of grew to different uh you know aspects of the business. So it like insurance is a big part of what we do now. And we negotiated contracts with insurance payers that have audiology-only contracts, and we can incorporate the teleaudiology team into those consults. In many cases, they're actually doing all that work in one of our clinics, taking over a remote audiometer, doing the testing, counseling, everything as if we were face to face. The only thing we can't do is take impressions or remote serum. You know, so but everything else, it's virtually you're right there with the patient. And in reality, it's like you're sitting right next to it. And it patients love the experience. And I just think of my mom, like when I first connected with her, you know, I grew up in a small town and you know, she told everybody in the town about that experience. And many patients are like my mom, they go and leave that consult and they're talking to their family, their friends about what happened in that visit. And we get more referrals from that.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Fantastic. I mean, you know, to me, rather than just being fear-based, and we're going to evolve a little bit into the OTC discussion in a moment, but telehealth was a fear factor before OTC was, in that people were saying, you know, I need to figure out ways to create clinical efficiencies and while preserving patient outcomes and patient satisfaction. You guys really walked the talk by developing this while everyone else was sitting on the sofa until the pandemic hit, and then they realized they needed to supplement or substitute, in many cases, telehealth for face-to-face interaction. And I think the other part that's really impressive about what you've done is that you've established the value of the support service that can be provided either face-to-face or remote. And I think you know, you were ready for COVID when that hit. And then when OTC became a reality this summer, I think you've also been ready to, instead of being paralyzed by fear, you were motivated by the opportunity. So let's talk a little bit about that and we'll come back and maybe link these two up into ways and opportunities that you might see for the future. But uh, what about OTC? I mean, um, do you see this as a threat or an opportunity uh for the patient and for the role of the professional, many of whom are listening on this uh on this uh podcast?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yeah, we certainly view it as an opportunity. So those patients are coming in and it's the opportunity for the patient to come in and and go through a consult, and we integrate it into our patient pathway. So it's basically just like third-party model, it's a limited service model that we've incorporated in. So when that patient comes in, you know, we we offer OTCs in our clinic for the purpose of patient acquisition. Okay. So we know they can we know they can go get OTCs anywhere, right? Whether it's online, big box stores, you know, Walgreens Best Buy, CBS, you name it. Yeah, so we and we can carry them in our stores. Yeah, that gives the patient the opportunity to come into our retail locations and purchase very similar devices as they could get in the big box. But the difference is us, the provider, the licensed provider. Because I I've tested this. I've gone to local drugstores and I've asked them about their OTC display. And the people working there will be basically be honest, they'll say, I don't know anything about that, and they don't want to touch it. The good people working in those stores will actually lead you to the display, and then they do the nice thing of reading the display and pointing to the bullet points. And I'm like, well, I can read that, you know. But yeah, they're being good about about the job and you know, trying to you know take care of the patient. But in reality, is we know better as licensed providers when they can come into our store. What's happening is those patients are now engaging our trained staff. So we've trained our PSCs, our providers. What's a PSC, our patient service coordinators, or our front desk staff on how to uh engage the patient. And we simply just bring them right down our clinical pathway. So we answer their question, and then we don't know if it's earwax is causing the issue. So we'll you know do videotoscopy. If it is earwax, we'll remove the earwax.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

And then you've immediately established expertise, correct. Caring to learn whether there is something that could improve their hearing without the need for a device, establishing that trust right from the start.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Yep. Definitely. Yeah, and and that's the key is you know, we know patients can go anywhere and get OTC devices now. So when we have that expertise, that is our competitive advantage. And when we can acquire those patients and have them come into our retail locations versus you know anywhere else, that's a big advantage for us because it's all about what we call lifetime value of the patient. And we've done the math, it's nearly$26,000. And how that breaks down is if the patient purchases an OTC device, let's say that. You know, we can start them down the patient journey process. So it's the entry into hearing healthcare, and that's the opportunity we see it. So when those patients come in, we want to take good care of them so we can earn their trust for life.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

And what that means is we we can sell service plans, we can sell warranty plans, we can have that patient come in and purchase supplies, drying products, batteries. There's so many different opportunities that generate revenue even from OTC. But the biggest difference is when you do a good job, you earn that patient's trust for life. So they'll buy their next set of prescriptive devices from us. So when patients come in and buy OTC devices from us, it yeah, it's great, it's functional, it works for them. But the opportunity is there for us as licensed providers to engage that patient and offer better solutions down the road. So, you know, we we go through verified best hearing processes where you know we are reading off words, comparing how they function with their current aids versus you know potentially how they do better with prescriptive AIDS. So we have processes and protocols built into our systems to ensure we can get those patients coming in, but more importantly, to get the best hearing from them.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Of course. So so right now you're just starting, really, because this has just become a reality, to offer the start hearing brand of over-the-counter device. And you're not you're not making those available on the Audible websites or online. They're available in the store, in the office. So so let's walk through a use case. So now I'm somebody that's read about this or heard about uh that you could get the start hearing device. Maybe I do have questions about whether my hearing is um uh hearing loss is enough that I could expect to receive benefit while not required. If I was coming in to get the start hearing, could I get a hearing test to just sort of work with you and your team to determine, yeah, you have a mild mild to moderate loss that is measured and this might be an appropriate starting point. Is that one of the potential use cases for this?

SPEAKER_01 15:38

For sure. Okay. So when those patients, if if they call and say they're interested in an OTC, we automatically book enough time for a hearing examination.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Uh so it's very important because you know what patients perceive as mild to moderate could be different than reality. Absolutely. And you know, we all have been there and when we saw patients. So we want to work with the facts of what is the patient's actual need. So we'll bring them through our whole process. And most patients really appreciate that because again, that's a competitive advantage to our you know, licensed uh providers versus you know any big box store. So when those patients come in, they know they're gonna go through our clinical process. But the good thing is, is we offer the OTC as really our entry level or lowest level treatment plan. So it's part of our pricing sheets, it's part of our recommendations. It's uh the choice patients could pursue that, and it's certainly the lowest cost option. But what they see is when they go through the whole process, they see the value of the provider.

unknown 16:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

And that's the key. I think that is such an important point. And and the issue, I think, that has a lot of people sort of paralyzed is they think, well, if I offer start hearing or one of the other OTC devices, and then the patients start having more and more questions. Number one, you've got a qualified lead, as you said. I mean, this is somebody who's saying, I have trouble. I want to get some help. I may or may not need the role of a professional. But if I just want to come in and I know that there's a, you know, there, there's an office that if I do have trouble, I can call somebody up and get some assistance with that, knowing that there's likely to be a charge or a service plan associated with that. But if I want to just come in and pick up the device and take it and try it and see whether my hearing is better, if that, if for some people, if uh patients, end users, if that's less threatening, that's one pathway to success. And then I think you've established that credibility and trust and caring attitude that could then provide the opportunity for the next purchase of the device, or if they needed more advanced features, um, then that's a pathway too. But for many people, professionals, there's like, okay, so they they sell them the OTC and then they have questions. Well, how do you how do you broach that subject of the value of the professional service? How is that accomplished to sort of say, okay, where do we go from here? Once I try the OTC, I I want the I want the better hearing experience, but I don't want to do it myself and I need the role of a professional. What's next?

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Yeah. So what we do is we we make it part of our dispensing package where we're gonna unbox the product for the patient. So the OTC device, when it when a patient comes in and purchases that, we'll actually go through the whole uh unboxing, which means you know, we take it out, we pair it to the phones, download the app, everything. So most patients, from what we see, that's one of the big hurdles. They they struggled, you know, with their Apple IDs or passcodes and downloading. So when we guide guide them through that process, we immediately earn their trust and respect. Um, you know, so that's yes, it takes a little time, but it's worth it because if that patient isn't satisfied with the product, we have so many prescriptive options that will meet their needs. But even if they are satisfied, then you set them up on success with your practice because they're gonna always associate your business with who where they bought the device from.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Uh so now you can have them come back for those services. But this is where we've integrated our teletech team. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

And I think that really is the segue to that because what you've done is establish that the role of the professional is critical to the outcome. I I've maintained for a long time that you can have decent technology and an excellent c clinician and achieve satisfaction. You can have poor, you know, or marginal technology uh and an outstanding clinician, again, satisfaction. You can have excellent technology and someone who doesn't really understand the needs of the patient or how to uh uh control the device to achieve satisfaction, but you really need excellent technology and the role of the professional. But the one constant, I think, is that role of the professional to understand the individual, the patient, beyond what the two ears are. It's really they're connecting to the brain, connecting to their life, their family, their friends, their colleagues. And once you establish the importance of that, whether it's an OTC device where you may be able to help them out and address some concerns or if they have serumen in their ears and can remove that and go on the do-it-yourself product, establishing that face-to-face care and even telehere is a means of then moving from satisfaction to delight. You've probably seen this before. I know your net promoter scores in your Audubon practices are off the charts in terms of that ability to understand the patient, uh, understand what technology is most appropriate for them, and then help them achieve the very best that that technology can provide.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's it's all about when you care for the patient, they recognize that. And our we we focus on our providers to treat everybody, it's almost like it's your parents sitting across from you. Yeah. And and they do an exceptional job at that. Uh the when the OTC patients come in, we've we give every patient a little card that will connect with our telehere team. But then the beauty of that is when even if they go home and they struggle and uh have issues, they they're just a phone number away from getting help.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

So you will you mention how telehere has been an integral part from really the assessment and that initial. Decision all the way through the fitting and the oral rehabilitation aspect. But so even with OTC, they get that card, and if they have questions, they can join a synchronous live session and ask questions. Now, obviously, on an OTC, it has limited uh uh uh uh adjustability and no uh features for really really being able to fine-tune or remotely adjust those those products. But it's again that role of the professional who can care, who can address questions, concerns, coach them, motivate them a little bit, but also encourage them that if they want more to that next level, then that is a possibility as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

For sure. Yeah, you those even on an OTC device, our providers will do the 24-hour phone call to a patient. Okay. And that's really, again, it's all about caring. And that's where you know we recognize if a patient's having you know Bluetooth issues, streaming issues, or even just you know, needed a friendly reminder how to use the app, you know, they can walk through it at that time. I mean in with prescriptive devices and the use of the telehearer through inspire system, that's phenomenal. Yeah. You know, because now they can actually go in and help navigate and make these changes for the patient. You know, it's amazing how like a little tweak, you know, two one or two clicks can make a world of a difference for a patient out there.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

For sure. And yet uh younger clinicians, I've I've observed this over the years that younger clinicians in many cases are sometimes too quick to go to the adjustment rather than focus on what the patient listening more than talking and listening to what the patient's real concern is because sometimes it's a uh an issue of understanding a feature better or when to use or how to use the devices better, more than it is making changes. But it's again, it's all centered on the clinician's ability to understand what the patient's needs are. And I love how you guys are seamlessly integrating that into OTC, into prescriptive products. And the the secret sauce is the professional and the professional's ability to listen, learn, and help that patient using, and you said it, not me, sort of the male approach of putting the needs of the patient or the consumer first, because many of those consumers will become patients because they don't want to do it themselves. And when they trust you and have the benefit of your explanation, or as they transition into prescriptive devices, of using your expertise to fine-tune the devices. Uh, you know, you look at the market track, the latest market track 2022 showed that uh with satisfaction with the products and the professional in around 90%. Once patients know us and understand what we do and the value that we bring, um, very few are going to go from a prescriptive approach back into an OTC approach. That fear, I think, is worse than the reality.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Totally agree. Yeah. We haven't seen that much in our clinics at all. Where patients come in with prescriptive devices and want to even, they don't even ask about the OTC. Yeah. Yeah. It's really not even though there's a lot of press and PR out there, they they've seen the ads. Everybody's seen all the Medicare ads on TV, but they don't even ask about that. So they trust the provider they've been seeing. And yeah, Mr. Austin says it the best. When we do the right thing for the patient, we do the right thing for Starkey.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

And that's really what it comes down to is that patient care and through the licensed hearing health care provider.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

100%. And, you know, the this notion of the fear that somehow we're going to uh go into extinction because of OTC hasn't really panned out yet. I mean, you know, I can't predict what's going to happen five years, 10 years in the future. But right now, in talking to professionals, there was a flurry of interest and activity uh over OTC when it finally became a reality. But then in the people that I'm talking to, they're saying just what you're, they're echoing what you just said, is that, you know, they're they're recognizing certainly those who have been in the prescriptive model in the past are saying, yeah, but what am I going to do when I have trouble? Well, how do I get to you? And um, and they realize that's the secret sauce in all of this is the role of the professional, the trusted professional. And that's where I think you've done such a great job with combining OTC with telehealth to provide that personalized individual care. And uh, and I think for those individuals, professionals listening here who've been resistant to uh incorporating telehealth as a powerful tool in their tool belt. It's not right for everyone, but the way that you can do it and your results show you've improved or preserved, preserved and enhanced satisfaction. You've lowered returns for credit when you've incorporated telehealth, you've even helped increase the average selling price for professionals who are looking for uh better ways to meet and exceed patient expectations. Um you've it's been nothing sort of exemplary. So I applaud you and your team.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Appreciate it. Yeah, it's I I have a great team and great leaders on those teams. But most of all, it's it's the colleagues out in the field that are willing to incorporate our telehear team into the process. Uh so it's been simply amazing. And even outside of our telehere team, you know, we make a strong push for each local provider to use Telehere and Inspire to go in and actually set it up and connect with that patient through a live session on that 24-hour follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

So we've talked about the fact that OTC has been available for a couple months now. Talk about the fact that there was this flurry of activity that occurred in interest. Probably the phone started ringing as soon as people started seeing the media coverage of over-the-counter hearing aids, even though we've been immersed in this for years. Um, you know, they were many people were hearing about it for the first time when it finally became a reality. So help alleviate some of the fears that professionals have that this is going to be the demise of the profession. What have you been hearing in terms of the phone calls or in your discussions? You've got a big team and you're also well connected through the audiology community. What are you hearing? And do you have any do you have any um uh data or any impressions about this the threat versus the opportunity provided by over the counter?

SPEAKER_01 28:52

Yeah, it's a great question. It's been very minimal impact. Yeah. So we we were gonna over-prepare just in case there was a huge impact. And in reality, it there's been it's our day-to-day operations have almost remain the same. So when we look at the data, we you know, we can track when the patients call us. You know, we have bots that can you know catch keywords, OTC over the counter. It that occurs on patient acquisition calls less than one half of one percent of the time. Wow. And so by the time patients are calling our clinics, OTC is really not top of mind or even you know of interest to them. And when they come in, you know, what's happening, even if patients see our displays, it's engages them. You know, they're like, oh, I know about this. I'm glad you guys offer them, is basically what it is. Because you almost get the question, like, if you didn't offer it, you know, then they notice that.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Yeah, and and I'll just push back a little bit in the devil's advocate and say, well, of course, with an OTC category, they're not gonna call a traditional provider, um, but they're gonna seek, you know, online or big box or something like that. But at the same time, the other part of what you said was your business has not been impacted significantly by over-the-counter. It hasn't, it hasn't caused what some feared was the worst, was that immediately the phone would stop ringing and appointments would stop being scheduled. So it's really that that you know, you can search on those bots and see what's going on in terms of uh uh interest in the website and people that are looking online, but also that it hasn't impacted in an adverse way the business at all. And in fact, we think longer term it's gonna kindle more business.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah, that's exactly where I was gonna go, is if if anything, it's actually helped with our business because you know, there's no such thing as bad PR, right? You know, so when patients come in, you know, it's whether an OTC or some newscast prompted them to like, hey, I better get my hearing checked. And they call us, great. You know, so we're seeing actually an increase, you know, due to OTC.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

So amidst all of these things that are all the different hats you're wearing and have worn, um, do you still find time now to see patients? I do, yeah. I think that's so important to keep you grounded in reality because you can be get too far removed from patient care, and I still see patients too, not as many as you. I'm licensed in in three locations. I'm licensed in Minnesota and in Florida and Rwanda. How many places are you licensed?

SPEAKER_01 31:31

All 50 states and the District of Columbia, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

That's crazy. So I mean, I think it would almost be a full-time job just keeping track of all of the continuing education and expiration dates on all of that. But I don't know how you how you do that. But that's been one of, I think, one of the hidden trivia items that I know about you uh beyond your interest in wrestling. So um, as usual, um, with our discussions, I lose track of time and we're already out of time. It's it's a a bit of a uh tradition that we've done in terms of talking to people a little bit about their favorite sound. I mean, we call this sound bites. So can you uh list one or two of your favorite sounds that you wouldn't want to miss and that you're you would always try to encourage people to uh pursue better hearing and uh hear better, live better?

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Yeah, I I would say my kids' voices.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Yeah for two boys.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Two boys, yeah, 13 and 9. So you could not live without hearing those voices every day. So that would be one of them. And then I I'm a pretty patriotic guy. So I would say the star-spangled matter. I I it's just you know, being a competitor, you know, an athlete, I that's that just jazzed or motivated me before any meets or football game, you name it. And it still does, you know, when you watch Super Bowls or big sporting events, is you know, hearing that song from me is certainly my sound bite.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

I think you've really pointed out how um sound, you know, number one, I say that uh the best time machine is a song. It it puts you back in a place. And I think also uh music, uh like the Star Spangled Banner in particular, elicits emotions. And uh, and that's the connection to that brain. It reminds us that we're not just hearing with our ears, but how it connects to our head and to our brain. And we want to encourage every patient to proceed with technology that will help them connect, whether sounds or whether music, so that they can indeed hear better, live better. And I know that that's what your goal is uh through any means possible, any technology. Again, uh I applaud what you and your team are doing in that way. And I I really appreciate that. I I clearly missed the memo today for those who are watching this podcast rather than listening. Uh Kent is wearing uh a suit and tie, and uh and I'm not. So uh thanks for showing me up once again.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

I I try to do my best for you, Dan. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

And uh and then also um, you know, the the the one other thing I will say that uh you I know that we have a rivalry with the NFL. And and this year um I've been muted uh in terms of uh my football team. But what who's your favorite packer?

SPEAKER_01 34:21

I I couldn't even list one of them.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

All right.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

I think on that note we will end. And uh for those of you who enjoyed this episode of Sound Bites, please like us or uh on your favorite platform, uh, share it with your friends, uh, subscribe so that you don't miss a single episode. Uh, Kent, I thank you again for being with us today. And I encourage people to uh provide us with some feedback or suggestions that you might have for future guests. We're all ears, and I look forward to uh being with you next time on the next podcast.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Appreciate it, Dave. Thank you for having me.