Starkey Sound Bites: Hearing Aids, Tinnitus, and Hearing Healthcare
Being a successful hearing care professional requires balancing a passion for helping people hear with the day-to-day needs of running a small business.In every episode of Starkey Sound Bites, Dr. Dave Fabry — Starkey’s Chief Health Officer and an audiologist with 40-years of experience in the hearing industry — talks to industry insiders, business experts and hearing aid wearers to dig into the latest trends, technology and insights hearing care professionals need to keep their clinics thriving and patients hearing their best. If better hearing is your passion and profession, you won’t want to miss Starkey Sound Bites.
Starkey Sound Bites: Hearing Aids, Tinnitus, and Hearing Healthcare
Auracast for Hearing Aids: What It Means for the Future
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Auracast for Hearing Aids: What It Means for the Future
Chief Hearing Health Officer Dr. Dave Fabry sits down with Dr. Heike Heuermann, Starkey’s Vice President of Product Integration, to explore the transformational impact of Auracast™ assistant and Google Fast Pair™ on hearing technology.
With more than two decades of experience across hearing science, engineering, systems design, and product management, Dr. Heuermann brings a unique holistic perspective on how cutting‑edge tech can reconnect people to the world around them.
Together, Dave and Heike dive into:
– How Auracast™ assistant works — Learn how this next‑generation broadcast audio technology allows a single sound source, like a TV, classroom, or place of worship, to stream high‑quality audio directly to multiple listeners at once. No accessories, no pairing hassles.
– The end of pairing frustration — Heike explains how Google Fast Pair dramatically simplifies setup for Android users, creating seamless, automatic connectivity across phones, tablets, laptops, TVs, and more.
If you’re curious about where hearing technology is heading, especially around connectivity, accessibility, and audio personalization, this episode is packed with insights.
Welcome to Soundbites. I'm Dave Fabry, Starkey's Chief Hearing Health Officer and host of this podcast. Now, this week we are delighted and excited to talk about some new updates that reflect our commitment to innovation that matters to patients and providers alike. And I'm really pleased to have a brand new Starkey team member, Dr. Heike Heurmann. And she joined us just in November. But she's not new to this industry. So Heike, thank you for very much for being here on the podcast today with us. Your experience really is ideally suited in your new role as vice president of product integration. And you have a background in this discipline, and I'll have you talk a little bit about your background in a moment, but it really spans everything from engineering to hearing science and audiology to systems engineering to product management in your past roles. And really, this role that you're in now for us plays a critical role of really being able to see a product from start to finish in an area that, and we won't get too much into the secret sauce that we have you working on today, but we are going to talk a little bit about two areas that I think many uh providers and patients alike will find interesting. And that is both Oracast and Google FastPair. So, with that by way of introduction, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for sitting down with us and uh and welcome to Starkey.
Dr. Heike HeuermannThank you very much, Dave. And um I'm super excited uh about being here today after I only joined uh the Starkey team a couple of weeks ago. Um I feel fantastic here. You know that uh I've always been thrilled about bringing latest technology into good products that help people. And uh I must say there's uh hardly a better place to find than here for me.
Dr. Dave FabryWell, uh, we're in agreement on that. And so uh talk a little bit though about your background. It is extensive in the industry, and we've known each other sort of casually uh for for quite a few years, more than more than I care to admit.
Dr. Heike HeuermannOkay, yeah, yeah. We've bumped into each other at several occasions. And um, so I was very happy to see you here finally in person. And yeah, meeting you.
Dr. Dave FabryIt's great to have you as a colleague. So so talk about your past experience.
Dr. Heike HeuermannWell, starting with my educational background. Um so everybody calls me an audiologist. In fact, I am not really. Um I hold a background in uh uh cognitive psychology and in physics, which at a first glance might look a bit uh weird combination, but it's perfectly suited to uh work on hearing technology and on hearing science. Why? Uh physics describe the world around us, how we measure it. Starting with sound, we have sound waves, decibels, frequency. Uh on the other hand, psychology, cognitive psychology, uh deals with how we perceive the world, what we do with it. So when we hear sound, it's not just technical sound, we hear voices, uh, we we communicate, uh, we perceive all our environment, be it birds or waves or the traffic around us. Uh we hear melodies that start some uh emotions in us. And a hearing aid bridges between these two worlds. If people have a hearing loss, they often are at risk of losing the connection to the world around them. And our products bring back the connection between the inner and the outer world. When I was at university, I just did the perfect combination without knowing it. And uh now I find my wor myself in a world that uh I still like to always have the holistic view.
Dr. Dave FabryYes. Yeah, and to be able to be able to speak about the techniques, you know, the technical aspects. We say we can't defy the laws of physics, but we can work on psychoacoustics and psychophysics to provide the best possible solutions to end users who use our products. And so I'd agree with you that whether it was unknowing or intentional when you were in university, combining, if you will, the art and science, the humanity and the physics of it is ideally suited to where you are now.
Dr. Heike HeuermannRight. And as it has always fascinated me to see, okay, I cannot change physics, but we have technology. And technology is made to make our lives wonderful. And and this is where I would like to contribute. Keep us in this world, keep us being a member of the world around us, and enjoy.
Dr. Dave FabryYeah, and and it is, as you say, it's this the the physics drives it, but it is an emotional connection. And that's one thing as you know, 40 plus years in the industry working with end users and patients on a regular basis. The one of my favorite parts of my job is that connection to their emotional world. Yes, we're doing everything we can to break uh the rules of physics as much as possible, or at least uh stretch them as much as we can, but ultimately it is that connection to their immediate world and their colleagues and their friends and their family, of course, but also the connection uh to each other.
Dr. Heike HeuermannYes. And this is why I like my new current role here so much, uh, because it works exactly with this holistic view from the from the initial technical idea up to how can I bring it in the best way into the product and help patients with this. And um, as you have mentioned already, in the past 20 years, 25 years that I've worked in the area of audio engineering, hearing aids, I've had several roles from audiological research over systems engineering. And uh my career in the past years has brought me more and more into management position. And people management is exciting, working with big teams of engineers and scientists who are really eager to give their best. But uh in the past years I have recognized that I really missed the hands-on work going back to audiological research, visiting conferences, talking with the engineers and um bringing the latest technology uh into a good product. So um when I had the opportunity to visit Starkey to see the headquarters, the people here, um, the visions and the values that are not just buzzwords but really lived. Yeah, I just knew that this would be the place for me where I could bring my own ideas in and be in a great team and and just do the things that I love. And uh well, here I am, and uh I must say I have seen so many new ideas, so many great people. I am uh involved now in a lot of uh great uh technology developments. I have been welcomed incredibly warmly, and people just trust me, and I love that.
Dr. Dave FabryWell, uh your credentials certainly speak for you, and I think you you earned that trust over the 20 odd years uh prior to prior to joining us, and now we'll uh uh capitalize on that experience to put you to work. And so uh one of the areas really that we want to talk about today with regards to the latest product advancements is this issue, I think, that is still unfolding of Auracast. And what does that mean? I mean, we've been now 12 years since made-for iPhone technology. We had wireless technology prior to that time, but it was more proprietary on the part of different manufacturers. Starkey used 900 megahertz, and other people use uh near-field magnetic inductance in combination with a wireless signal. Now we've unified on Bluetooth, and I think we're finally coming to the point where Oracast represents why it is that we all converged on Bluetooth. But talk a little bit about from where you were, you know, not disclosing any proprietary information. But what why should people, why should end users and professionals be excited about Oracast?
Dr. Heike HeuermannWell, you already mentioned parts of it, starting with the different types of wireless technology that we started with. Uh, you forgot to mention all the accessories that we needed some 15 years ago. Now remember the times when I was first uh participating in uh uh Bluetooth SIG meetings where people talk were talking about something that was so far away and so almost unrealistic, and now we have it in our in our devices. So for me, Auracast has been a long-lived dream. And uh okay, for others it may just might just be the latest evolution of uh Bluetooth, but for me it is much, much more. It is uh a major leap, um, and it it has multiple aspects usability, but also how we can use it. Uh let's start with the simplest thing. Um traditional Bluetooth as we know it is typically a one-to-one connection. Right. I have a smartphone that is connected with my hearing aids. And uh the best thing we could get out of it is that we could use it bi-directional. I could listen to a phone call and I could speak. But that was it. Decent quality, uh the hearing aid could run for a day with that, that's it. Auracast now is uh a uh broadcast technology that means I have one sound source, a TV or a smartphone, or a public communication system like this, and it is able to transmit to multiple uh recipients, listeners at the same time. I can listen to a TV and at the same time, uh my partner who might also have a hearing loss or might want to use headphones can do it in the same time without any additional equipment. I can go to the airport and listen to announcement that are related just to my gate and my flight. At the same time, it's much easier to use. Uh, if we think about the the telecoil, where we used uh to have a very complex uh technical setup that was built into the walls. In the future we will just have a transmitter in the churches, and everybody can listen to um the the the speaker.
Dr. Dave FabryYes, I think that's sort of the the one thing people uh are who have been uh using telecoils and assistive technology for decades really. It's not a new technology, and it and it has worked well for its purpose, I would say, for a long time. But but talk a little bit about um for people who do, let's say in their place of worship, have a loop system for purposes of uh during their worship. Um what sorts of, you know, the simplicity is once you have that loop done and then the hearing aids are equipped with telecoils, it doesn't require a lot of sophistication on the part of the end user. Once they learn that when they go there, they switch to the telecoil mode either using an app or a direct switch on their device. And then as long as the system is functioning properly and they're sitting within the loop, um, they will be able to hear what's up at the lectern or in the front easier than if they're listening just through ambient sounds. But now, why should they consider that if that works well for their purposes, why should they be excited about Oracle for that use case? Because I would argue that it's a very important one for people when they go and join other people and they're in a loop system. I mean, classrooms have used wireless technology for some time, and there still are some classrooms in the U.S. where they have a loop system, but I would say places of worship or senior centers are sort of the number one and number two use cases for that. But why should they think about when Oracast systems become available, transitioning from a loop system to an Oracast one?
Dr. Heike HeuermannVery, very good point. You mentioned a uh big advantage that um Telecoil has had so far over Bluetooth. Bluetooth might have been a hassle for some people because of the not so easy pairing process. Uh everybody uh may remember the times not very long ago when you had to start a complex pairing process. You had to go into the depth of your menus and the smartphone to find the right product you wanted to pair with, and then you had to do it every time again and again and again. With AuraCast, it will change, not only because of the Oracast codec, but more because of it comes with some additional tools, starting with the uh AuraCast Assistant, which is an app that you can find on your smartphone. And this app works rather with uh like you are searching for a Wi-Fi network. It's not so much pairing, it's tuning in. Then on top, we have Google Fast pair, which especially helps you with the initial setting up.
Dr. Dave FabryYeah, and I think that's such a big barrier, at least a um not not necessarily the the the it's the stigma of someone who says, I'm not I'm not technology savvy, and that initial pairing. And then of course with Bluetooth low energy, which is what we've used in our products now for some time, it's not done just on the Bluetooth setting that you would use for pairing wireless headsets or earphones or some some other wireless device. And a lot of times I've had frantic calls, either even from practitioners, after they first learned that we had to go in on the iPhone, for example, into accessibility, hearing devices, then pair, not just through that Bluetooth, but this fast pair that you mentioned. And let's uh that we commingle a little bit of the um of the topics today. But that Google FastPair is a means to uh faster pairing. So from an ease of use standpoint, that that's killer. That's that's a killer app, as they say, because it will it will expedite uh uh and simplify the ability of an end user to connect to places where they are regularly going, whether that's a place of worship, the airport. I spend a lot of time there. That use case is particularly intriguing to me because I enjoy going to the airport and people watching. And what I see now at our airport in Minneapolis, many of the gates on some of the um circuits are quite close together. And so if they're quite crowded and there's numerous flights taking off, I'll see people get up when they hear an announcement for zone one boarding, go up to the boarding area only to discover that the agent says, no, no, no, that's the flight that's going to Detroit, not to uh Tucson. And so the ability to be able to lock in, as you mentioned, to a specific gate when you go to board and get only those announcements rather than all of the other cacophony of noises coming in from the other gate announcements, that will represent a big advantage, I think, too, for hearing aid users.
Dr. Heike HeuermannAbsolutely. Or think about trains, where train stations where even for normal hearing people, what comes out of the loudspeakers is just some gibberish. Because everything comes at once, and then you have all the echoes, all these problems will be solved easily.
Dr. Dave FabryYeah. And I think the other advantage you just alluded to is that loop systems in the past have typically been used by people with hearing loss, hearing aid users. ORCAST, and the reason that I'm so excited about the speed of this transition, we talk about the infrastructure has to develop, technologies have to come out, compatibilities have to come out. It will take time for Oracast to become more pervasive and ubiquitous in the way that for hearing aid users, the loop systems have. But the advantage and the reason that I think I'm so excited about the speed of this transition is that not only hearing aid users, but uh wireless buds, headsets that are Oracast compatible and might be used by people without hearing loss, they also will benefit from this technology.
Dr. Heike HeuermannThey will both people with hearing aid and people with normal hearing, they will both use it in the same way and they will both benefit in the same way. Therefore, AuraCast is the inclusive technology that we can currently think of. And um one reason why AuraCast is so successful is not only that it's so easy to be used, it has also many more functionalities. Imagine when you're in a gym. Typically there is some uh TV playing there, there is some music around, and you have your instructors. Whom do you want to listen to now? You can go to the gym with your friend and you can both be on the cross trainer and both listen to the same TV. Talk about it. Or you go to the yoga class that is just next there, next door, and both listen to the yoga instructor. So it really brings people with hearing loss, without hearing loss, just back to the same point.
Dr. Dave FabryYes.
Dr. Heike HeuermannThere's hardly any technology that is more inclusive.
Dr. Dave FabryYeah, it is it is extremely inclusive. And then let's get to sound quality, the sound quality of the streamed signal. Um in comparison to telecoils and compared to other other technologies. Talk a little bit about that.
Dr. Heike HeuermannI I don't even want to start talking about the uh limited bandwidth. That we all had to suffer when we had the old good old analog phones. Nowadays, there's much more modern technology. And uh so the new codec that is used uh with LE Audio, the LC3 codec, is not only much better in terms of sound quality, it has a broader bandwidth, it comes with uh uh less latency, which is also super important. It's huge. And um, what is most important, maybe especially for hearing aid uh users, is uh much uh uh lower power consumption. That means you can really use uh Aura cast the whole day and still have your battery uh running uh the whole day. So uh this is a big advantage if you compare it to the old uh Bluetooth technologies, especially if we think about Bluetooth Classic, uh, which is extremely power consuming uh and at the same time provides a rather bad sound quality and long latency. This is uh just the best you can get in terms of technology at the moment.
Dr. Dave FabryYeah, I think you you hit it. I mean, sound quality, the latency, which is huge when you you know we don't want that sync uh disconnect that you have where the lips and the and the sound aren't aligned. And and we're getting that latency down uh to a great degree. And then I think you know, the very important point of battery life um is one that can't go underappreciated in the sense that the best technology in the world is useless if the end user suffers from range anxiety that they're worried at the end of the day, especially on days where they're watching a sporting event or or using a lot of streamed signals that they're gonna run out of power.
Dr. Heike HeuermannTalking about streamed signals, one big advantage or a complete novelty of Auracast is that not only one stream can be transmitted by a sender, but multiple streams. And the use cases are manifold. Imagine you're sitting in uh in a cinema and you want to switch from the English to the to the French translation. It's easy, it's a it's a click. You just switch between the streams. Or when you're in a museum, uh a future potential application could be that you're in standing in front of the paintings and you get the information of the painting directly sent to your uh to your hearing aids or to your headphones.
Dr. Dave FabryAnd now, I mean a lot of museums um have that type of uh technology, but they're typically done with a headset and a and a small uh body-worn type device that is necessary to connect to that. And I think that again isn't inclusive. It doesn't allow the hearing aid user to have the sound adapted to compensate for their hearing loss. Again, from an inclusive standpoint, they don't have to wear something that singles out that they're using some sort of assistive technology. So I think it really does also address some of the stigma that goes along with people who are using assistive technology to experience um what they're seeing in the world. And a museum is an ideal case where now it doesn't require any intermediary devices, just their hearing aids and their phone and the Oracle transmitted signal.
Dr. Heike HeuermannRight. I would say now we have the first time that uh uh regular users of hearing aids are even in the in an advantageous position because they go into the museum, they can just use their own technology right away. Yeah. So all the time.
Dr. Dave FabryYou can even geotag it. I mean, I can envision in the future that no longer, like a lot of the museum ones that I do, you have to say, okay, I'm at station one now, I'm at station two, and you play the audio track when you go to the different locations. The smarter uh interface in the future will be possible to use geotagging to a specific location. So you don't even need to say uh and and worry about being out of sync with the different stations.
Dr. Heike HeuermannSo yeah, and that's breaks on all kinds of barriers. Yep. I remember that has always been a pain. I just remember me being in a museum uh just uh two months ago, and uh I had trouble with uh finding the right painting and always sync it with my phone all the time. So looking forward to using that technology.
Dr. Dave FabryYeah. So you talked about Google FastPair. And you know, in the past, we've we've talked about the difference really between uh on Bluetooth Low Energy. It's it's you know, iPhone and Apple has one experience, and Google and Android has had a different experience. And with Bluetooth Low Energy, It's often a pain point for the professional to think about okay, is this phone compatible with uh these hearing aids and this phone and worried about the compatibility for something like Oracast, for accessories, for other things? How will this uh Google fast pair streamline the process? You talked about it, but um we're introducing that with the latest uh Omega AI devices to make it available to really uh enable that efficient fast pairing uh in a much more streamlined fashion than in the past. Talk a little bit about that.
Dr. Heike HeuermannWell, um I mentioned already how how easy it will be in the future. Um I know I'm I'm aware of uh of uh Apple devices always uh offering very good usability, while I myself have always been a big fan of Google and Android.
Dr. Dave FabryUm we'll forgive them.
Dr. Heike HeuermannThank you.
Dr. Dave FabryHalf the world can't be wrong.
Dr. Heike HeuermannWhat I see now is that um Google uh together with Android is a whole ecosystem nowadays. Uh Android is everywhere. It's not just with one brand, it comes across a huge variety of brands. I I don't want to even mention this now. Um but this is uh one of the biggest advantages. By the way, even I I use Apple products now all the way, but I still have my Google account also activated on Apple products. Why? Because that gives me always the uh the link to my second uh um virtual world. Yes. And this just shows um how huge the infrastructure and the ecosystem provided by Google nowadays is. And being part of that infrastructure just with one initial fast pair, the opportunities you get out of this are immense. And and though so I don't think that uh I really see a conflict between I'm using Apple products, I'm using uh Android products. Somehow they will all merge.
Dr. Dave FabryWell, that that raises another good point. I want to talk about two other areas. First, I want to talk about increasingly some of my younger, more tech-savvy patients are whether they're on an Apple platform or an Android platform, they're constantly switching throughout the day on Teams calls or Zoom calls that go between their computer, their phone, and then perhaps an iPad type device or a blade if type device. So, how will Oracast help with that, that transition if they're throughout the day switching from one device to the next? Is that going to be an advantage for them too?
Dr. Heike HeuermannCertainly. Um I can speak from my experience currently using headphones, but in the old times that has always been a hassle for me, and it kept me from using headphones. I was literally running around with my phone putting the loudspeaker on. And I can imagine what this means for people with a hearing loss because they cannot just choose. Now I take my hearing aids off and I carry around a device. With this seamless switching from one device to another, uh, I think we have uh a big advantage. For example, people with a hearing loss who are wearing hearing aids at work because they do have to switch between the two two, three different walls. Going to a meeting room, then going back to their own phone, going back to their PC. Um I think this is a very, very relevant use case. And uh being able to just pair once and being then connected to the whole infrastructure, just look at our own company in in our own headquarter. Um I think this is an incredible uh step forward.
Dr. Dave FabryYeah, in seamless connectivity. Seamless. The other thing you touched on is accessories. You know, in the past, when someone has wanted to uh go home and have a TV streamer, you mentioned about broadcast mode or the ability to go one to many, so that we'd plug in a TV streamer and uh different family members could use the same streamer. But would you say it's safe to say that something like a TV streamer is an endangered species five years from now? Because the television sets will incorporate this technology, and people are replacing their TVs more frequently than in the old days. My my family, we hung on to a TV for 10 or 15 years until the tubes blew. Now we're we're not seeing that anymore. And people are switching and upgrading. Is is uh something like a TV streamer, which is arguably one of the most used accessories, is that on borrowed time with Auracast?
Dr. Heike HeuermannI think it's a question of taste a bit. I prefer having my TV being hanging on the wall. And I don't like a lot of other accessories being spreading around. So um I wouldn't say somebody must switch to a non-TV streamer-based technology, but I think it makes the world for people much easier. Yeah. Um and this is how I see the advantage. So my expectation would be that um we will see TV streamers less and less.
Dr. Dave FabryAnd you mentioned about, you know, you're an Android user and Starkey recently announced a partnership with Google. Now, you and I have both been in this industry a long time. And I think it's safe to say that we've been rather provincial in terms of the way we look at technology development. Each of us, and we have very solid competitors in this space, and we're all developing, we have our own roadmaps and our own technology strategies, but we've tended to develop those things internally. I think when a Chin Bomick, our CTO, joined us with deep ties that he had to Silicon Valley and a lot of the tech leaders, we've seen partnerships that have been enriched really in that we don't have to invent everything. And so, what does this partnership mean with Google, at least from your vantage point?
Dr. Heike HeuermannI think this is a great partnership where we have two leaders teaming up and bring some great output for the people outside. Starkey being the leader in innovation being brought into meaningful products. You just mentioned Acheen, and uh I I saw one of the recent interviews that we you had with him about uh what DNN brings into the world of hearing aids, so I don't need to mention that. And on the other hand, um a company like Google being a tech leader in terms of um user experience and a worldwide ecosystem that just allows everybody who jumps on to support people all over the world. And this per fits perfectly to the mission that we have at Starkey, bringing people around the world back to the world of sound. And I think these two strong partners working together just gives great opportunities to all of us.
Dr. Dave FabryYeah.
Dr. Heike HeuermannI'm excited about that.
Dr. Dave FabryYeah, and I just think we don't have to invent everything uh on our own. When we look at things like generative AI and another important piece, and certainly what Google's working on with that, and then the DNN, as you say. And we we've got great engineers here focused on sound quality and speech intelligibility and applying that. And I think for Google, as for Apple, they're very dedicated to working with people who have hearing loss and those with normal hearing.
Dr. Heike HeuermannWell, there are some things that some companies can do better. We are top in developing hearing aid solutions and and new algorithms and DNN. I think if we wanted to start setting up a uh worldwide network of uh devices that uh allow streaming and um telephony and and so on, I I think uh it would be a bit too much for us. So why not partner up with those companies who have proven that they can do this in a stable way?
Dr. Dave FabryYeah, I completely agree with you. And you know, uh coming full circle because we're out of time, and I think you really highlighted um with that last statement and then also with your introductory statements that one of the reasons that attracted you to come work with Starkey is, you know, the the mission, better hearing. The mission is the boss. We're we're constantly focused on the end user and how it is that they look at the world, whether it's in terms of sound quality and ease of connectivity and all of the things we've discussed. But what is it that you feel is unique, having been with a couple of our competitors, about Starkey's focus on this mission, if you will, of uh better hearing, hearing better, living better?
Dr. Heike HeuermannI think what is unique is the dedication. Um you just said um Starkey is uh rather a small company. Uh we sometimes we are we are we are looking at the company.
Dr. Dave FabryCompared to Google, yeah, we're tiny.
Dr. Heike HeuermannBut uh we might be tiny, but we dare a lot. And this is what makes us special. With with with our people and and the the strong ownership behind us. The Austin family. We we can just afford sometimes trying to go the extra mile. And the world belongs to those who dare doing things. And this is why I truly believe that we will uh continue with our mission and bringing the best technology to the per people in need. I I truly believe this. And I'm I'm super happy that we can team up now with big partners because this gives us even more potential. So therefore, I'm really looking forward to contributing here. I have been excited from the first day that I started working here, and I'm really looking forward to a bright future that we will have here and that we will bring to our patients.
Dr. Dave FabryWell, well said, and I look forward to daring to strive for perfection while needing to satisfy, be satisfied with excellence. We we know perfection is almost unattainable. And with your background in physics, you know we can't defy the laws of physics. We have to work within what physics allows us and what the human uh auditory system allows us, and with the damage that occurs in the sensory process and in the brain. Um we can't we we can aim for perfection, but we'll we'll be satisfied, maybe not sated, but satisfied with uh excellence in that process. And and I love the way you phrase it in terms of our our willingness and our excitement to dare to see what we can accomplish. And I'm looking forward to uh working with you in the years ahead here. So thank you for joining us today.
Dr. Heike HeuermannThank you for having me.
Dr. Dave FabryAnd uh for our audience, thank you for listening and watching. Um and uh if you have uh friends that you think might benefit from what we talked about about Oracast and Google FastPair, share this. Uh please subscribe, send us a note at soundbites at Starkey.com if you have ideas for future topics. But until then, thank you for watching and listening, and we look forward to seeing you again soon.